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Téma: Curtis - HeLa

  1. #16
    Kontaminacia do ZSSR prisla divna aj mne, ale zracionalizoval som si to tak, ze skratka tie vzorky slohli zo Zapadu. Priemyselna a ina spionaz fungovala vo velkom, takze sice som sa pri tom pozastavil, ale vzapati som si to vysvetlil spionazou.

    Ked som pri tej racionalizacii - vraj ide o normalnu(?) funkciu mozgu. Ak mozog nema pre nieco vysvetlenie, tak si nejake vyrobi a nie vzdy je to vysvetlenie pravdive (dobre/prospesne).

    Po precitani google translate sa mi zdalo, ze tam vidis konspiracnu teoriu, alebo ze ta to prinajmensom aspon napadlo, ale isty som si nebol prave kvoli tomu, ze konspiracie mi k tebe prilis nesedia.

    Ano, zo statistickeho hladiska ci pravdepodobnosti tam ta sanca asi je skoro ziadna, ale odcitujem matematika z Jurskeho parku 1: "Zivot si cestu najde". Osobne nemam nejaky problem akceptovat nieco, co sa stane s pravdepodobnostou blizkou nule. Ak vezmem do uvahy, ze vesmir sa vyvinul ako sa vyvinul a ze prave preto mohol zivot vzniknut...

    Mne pridu zvlastnejsie ci zazracnejsie tie samotne bunky a ich vydrz/zivotaschopnost, nez ten pribeh. Tiez mi pride zvlastnejsie/zaujimavejsie, ak to vniklo samo (ci virusom). Ak tomu totiz niekto pomohol, tak najskor vedel co robi alebo co chce spravit. A mozno aj nie
    Ludia robia vselijake veci, tak preco by sa nehrali s bunkami/DNA/...?

    V kazdom pripade som ale teraz o nieco vzdelanejsi, predtym som o HeLa bunkach nemal ani ponatia.<div style="font-size: xx-small;color: #0000ff;display: inline-block;text-align: center;width: 100%;">
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  2. #17
    To Livar:

    Malo by to fungovat tak, ze mozes mat v DNA kodnute predpoklady pre vznik rakoviny, ale nedostanes ju, pretoze ju nema co spustit. Na spustenie potrebujes nejaky impulz. Ten impulz moze zmenit kod aj v "spravnej" DNA - teda bez nejakej predispozicie na rakovinu. Lenze potom nastupuju kontrolne mechanizmy samotnej bunky. Musia zlyhat aj tie a pokial zlyhaju, este je tu imunitny system cloveka, ktory rakovinove bunky zabije. Teda aby si dostal rakovinu, musi zlyhat niekolko systemov.

    Doplnenie:
    Este by som dodal, ze virus moze byt tym spustacom, kedze by mal mat iba RNA a na svoje mnozenie potrebuje pouzit DNA hostitela - teda zmenit kodovanie v DNA hostitela<div style="font-size: xx-small;color: #0000ff;display: inline-block;text-align: center;width: 100%;">
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  3. #18
    Citace Původně odeslal karas45 Zobrazit příspěvek
    Já to chápu tak, že to byla první objevená linie, byla zdarma a asi stále vyhovuje na většinu pokusů.... náhodou to někdo objevil. Nebo? to u ní někdo nějak vyvolal, to je otázka? Při pokusech na lidech běžně píchali HELA buňky do zdravých lidí to se ví.
    No tohle je to ono. To co nedava smysl.
    Byla to prvni objevena linie a nahodou - ne jako vsechny ostatni, je zdaleka nejodolnejsi a pronika laboratorema? Proc to nedelaji ty ostatni linie?
    nahodou to nekdo objevil a nahodou hned na zacatku a od ty doby neni zadna jina zivotaschopna linie u ktery by se nekdo pokousel o tohle:
    Due to their ability to replicate indefinitely, and their non-human number of chromosomes, HeLa was described by Leigh Van Valen as an example of the contemporary creation of a new species, Helacyton gartleri. The species was named after Stanley M. Gartler, whom Van Valen credits with discovering "the remarkable success of this species."[45] His argument for speciation depends on these points:

    The chromosomal incompatibility of HeLa cells with humans.
    The ecological niche of HeLa cells.
    Their ability to persist and expand well beyond the desires of human cultivators.
    HeLa can be defined as a species as it has its own clonal karyotype.[46]
    This definition has not been followed by others in the scientific community, nor, indeed, has it been widely noted.[citation needed]

    As well as proposing a new species for HeLa cells, Van Valen proposed in the same paper the new family Helacytidae and the genus Helacyton.[45] Recognition of Van Valen and Maiorana's names, however, renders Homo and Hominidae paraphyletic because Helacyton gartleri is most closely related to Homo sapiens.[citation needed]

    However this proposal has not been taken seriously by other prominent evolutionary biologists or scientists in other disciplines. Van Valen’s argument of HeLa being a new species does not fulfill the criteria for an independent unicellular asexually reproducing species because of the notorious instability of the cancer karyotype and their lack of a strict ancestral-descendant lineage.[47][48] What is clear however is that they are not good representatives of human cells[citation needed] and if used as such should preferably be used alongside other human derived cell lines,[citation needed] with more normal karyotypes.
    Abych to zkratil. Me prijde, ze ty Hela bunky nejak musely byt aspon castecne pritomny mimo tu cernosku a ze ji nekdo pouzil jako nejakyho nositele/replikator/pokusny morce nebo tak neco anebo tu proste byly uz predtim a nikdo si toho nevsim a anhodou se nasly v ni, ale pak nedava smysl, proc by se nenasly jeste v nekom jinem. Bohuzel nejsem genetik, tak si tuhle hypotezu nemuzu zfalzifikovat... a to je duvod proc to sem cely pisu.

    Konspiracni teorie je mozna moc silny vyjadreni, mozna se nekdo snazil zakrejt trapne nejakej pruser. Podobne pokud teda ty Hela bunky se dostaly k Rusakum spionazi, tak proc se o tom nemluvi aspon ted? A proc by s tim Rusaci prisli jako s velkym obejvem? At je to jakkoliv, tak v cem spocivala ta trapnost situace? Ze to prokazalo spionaz misto par let ztraceneho vyzkumu a vsem insiderum to bylo jasny? Pak i ten odhalujici dokument laikum neodhaluje nic.

    Proste me zajima jestli existuji ty jine linie, ktere jsou schopne samostatne zit jako HeLa bunky. Podle me ty jine linie dnes existuji, protoze moznosti kultivace jsou jine nez pred 60ti lety, kdy jim vsechno ostatni umrelo. Ale proc se sakra nenasly jine - podobne samostatne zijici "organismy" od te doby?

    Ten dokument je proste zajimavej tim, ze mam po nem bordel v hlave a jasny neni nic. Treba nekdy nekdo zavitate na nejakou diskuzi s odbornikem, tak se ho na to zeptejte. Ja se po tom urcite pidit budu dal.<div style="font-size: xx-small;color: #0000ff;display: inline-block;text-align: center;width: 100%;">
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  4. #19
    Are there other examples of immortal cells other than HeLa? - Quora
    ATCC Cell Lines

    stravil jsem par semestru na biomedicinske technice, ale na HeLa si nevzpominam... mam tady jeste nejaka skripta, ale tam asi nic k tomuhle nebude
    ale rekl bych, ze rada veci je proste top secret (neco se vypousti az casem)...<div style="font-size: xx-small;color: #0000ff;display: inline-block;text-align: center;width: 100%;">
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  5. #20
    Tak bych to teda preformuloval takhle:
    1. Proc se nepouzivaji tak masine jine nez HeLa bunky (nebo ano?)?
    2. Jsou ostatni laboratore taky tak promorene temi jinymi liniemi?
    3. V cem se lisi HeLa bunky od tech jinych rad (pokud skutecne tomu tak je)?<div style="font-size: xx-small;color: #0000ff;display: inline-block;text-align: center;width: 100%;">
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  6. #21
    Lidé | Oddělení genetiky a molekulární biologie
    nejlepsi bude sepsat dotazy a zahltit maily lidem z oboru kdyz trefis nekoho, kdo tim zije, dokonce ho potesis svym zajmem, az mu slza ukapne <div style="font-size: xx-small;color: #0000ff;display: inline-block;text-align: center;width: 100%;">
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  7. #22
    dobry no
    momentalne mam tezkou socialni fobii, tak se desim jakyhokoliv novyho kontaktu, takze asi ne
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  8. #23
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  9. #24
    tak muzu se zeptat ja (komunikovat s nema), ale sepis vsechny ty dotazy nejak srozumitelne s hackama/carkama

    poslu to i s tim videem<div style="font-size: xx-small;color: #0000ff;display: inline-block;text-align: center;width: 100%;">
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  10. #25
    co takhle poslat docentum ten thread...<div style="font-size: xx-small;color: #0000ff;display: inline-block;text-align: center;width: 100%;">
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  11. #26
    taky me to napadlo, jenze kdyz jsou zavreny registrace, tak nemuzou odpovidat primo sem

    nejak to udelam, no <div style="font-size: xx-small;color: #0000ff;display: inline-block;text-align: center;width: 100%;">
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  12. #27
    ok, poslal jsem maila na brnenskou a prazskou univerzitu nekolika lidem, s odkazem na tenhle topic, tak snad nekdo odpovi <div style="font-size: xx-small;color: #0000ff;display: inline-block;text-align: center;width: 100%;">
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  13. #28
    pokud nekdo bude chtit se zapojit tak samozrejme nejaky nick se najde
    pozdeji ho muzou vytrejdovat za tezky prachy
    Jan Stern bude mit jiste zajem<div style="font-size: xx-small;color: #0000ff;display: inline-block;text-align: center;width: 100%;">
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  14. #29
    Sice z bulvaru, ale no a co....

    Lekári stoja pred hrozbou, s akou svet nepočítal: Muža zabila cudzia rakovina!<div style="font-size: xx-small;color: #0000ff;display: inline-block;text-align: center;width: 100%;">
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  15. #30
    tak to ty esoterici tvrdi porad, ze cervi zpusobujou rakovinu

    mimochodem asi vite o my fobii z cervu, beru to +- s rezervou, asi jako nekdo veri na ufo, jako takovou obet iracionalite, ale aspon 2x rocne si ty antiparazitika beru, protoze se mi po nich kdysi priserne ulevilo (mohlo to byt placebo)

    no a vtipna vec je ze moje tchyne v Cesku (mimochodem po rannym odpoerovanym stadiu rakoviny tlustyho streva), se ted pul roku nemohla poradne hybat; pak nasla cerva v zachode, vzala si antiparazitika a po par dnech je jako rybicka, nedavno jsem s ni jel skoro 100km na kole a vyslapla si na Lysou horu

    takze ti cervi jsou fakt zajimava vec...<div style="font-size: xx-small;color: #0000ff;display: inline-block;text-align: center;width: 100%;">
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